Design Observer :: Join the Discussion http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/ en-us Design Observer Group 2012-10-24T05:23:08-05:00 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/1.0
Also, the discussion which followed! I went through all the comments. Kind of sad to realise what is going on. I thought that was my particular story but I see it is many of us who make other choices. I am now in my 40s, having had my sencond child and seeing it clear, that I want an immediate change of direction. Somehow, I have always known it, but now it is just more powerful than ever before.

It is funny how I stumbled on this great article precisely now. About a week ago, I wrote a little post on the reasons why I left architecture and I was posted yesterday!

I am sure many of you, talented women, can also read Spanish. You can see it here if you like: http://unadocenade.com/una-docena-de-razones-por-las-que-deje-mi-profesion/

Thanks again, Despina! Keep writting about us! Whatever we become from now on...
:-)]]> http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2012-10-24T05:23:08-05:00 http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2012-05-11T10:03:20-05:00
I came across this article while seeking information on what a female engineer should wear when conducting site assessments in support of the development of renewable energy projects ... lol! Google has some strange quirks. I know - I'm a little AR - but having suffered as a woman needing to dress as a man in male-dominated fields for far too long I wanted to see if times had changed.

I had mixed feelings while reading the article, though thoroughly enjoyed it - especially the pic. of the gleaming female faces of the future professionals - motivating me to read through all the comments.

As a 40-year old female mechanical engineer having just terminated a 12+ year career within fortune 500 automotive OEMs as product engineer, I woke up one day realising I didn't actually care about automotive gadgets and assembly lines. The Society of Automotive Engineers is asking the same questions as Architectural Associations regarding females leaving the profession.

My university year book suggested that I cared about the environment, flora & fauna, sustainability, etc. I recently rebranded myself by obtaining a Masters in Applied Science through research in the field of wind power meteorology and am now consulting in support of renewable energy project development here in Ontario Canada.

So why am I chiming in here? When I was 17, thanks to gender neutral up-bringing, the movie "Three Men and a Baby" inspired me to go into the field of Architecture. Unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately) I took the time to talk to students studying Architecture at Carleton University in Ottawa (my home town at the time).

The students to whom I spoke suggested that the assigned projects seemed to be graded based on the instructors personal bias & preference, industry norms, and profit yielding models of the present era vs. allowing for true expression of design (which they perceived should differentiate architects from civil engineers); the field sounded to me to be more akin to an art than a science and yet the art within was being suppressed?

Having just decided to drop all courses not founded in hardcore science, as I felt that I was being judged if not molded by highschool teachers in a similar fashion in both Art & English Literature courses, I chose to study Mechanical Engineering instead. I felt that mechanical engineering was the most comprehensive of the engineering fields yielding instruction in civil, mechanical, aeronautical, computer sciences, and electrical disciplines.

A decade later, I reconnected with some of the architectural students who went on to become architects and learned that they were deeply disappointed by the fact that they were tasked with mundane pieces of the bigger picture e.g., responsible for selecting/sizing windows.

More recently, I spoke with a full partner at a well-established firm and learned that some architects are hampered by their clients' accountants e.g., benefits of LEED certification-related inclusions are only seen as upfront cost increases. Imagine having to put your heart and soul into something that is far from what you had envisioned.

So to some up my diatribical piece, I would like to suggest that perhaps women, relatively new to the job force in the grand scheme of things, are still motivated by ideologies that men have come to realise as fanciful. Men stay on, while women quest onward seeking deeper meaning and involvement within their professional endeavours. Give us women another 50 years and we too will succumb.

Hopefully there will be a revolution before then through which all individuals regardless of gender, race, etc. stand up for a balance in life including the right to live in a great neighbourhood for raising a family, meaningful work, and suitable compensation/benefits.

P.S. While I appreciate Architect Barbie’s right to, and audacity for, wearing a skirt to the construction site, my personal experience on the automotive assembly line as a female engineer has taught me that, in most countries, Barbie would be ogled, subjected to cat calls, and not taken seriously as a professional. We women should be glad that it is now acceptable for us to wear pants.

Feminism has opened a tricky theatre in the professional realm especially when it comes to attire; for some, if a comment is made about the latest haircut and/or new outfit they are flattered, for others, if there are no comments, they are insulted – sexual harassment training has taught most men to say nothing … ever. And yet, statistics suggests that feminine attire, including makeup, yields not only jobs, but higher pay for the job. This is tricky business that will not change until we all become androgynous, which I am sure none of us want.
]]> http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-11-22T20:34:56-05:00
The stories I hear from most women architects who are in practice and who have chosen to stay, reflect their passion for their work. Importantly too is that they are not intimidated but instead almost amused by the guys on construction sites. The reality is that this type of man tries to intimidate any newbie on the site--female or male. And engineers and architects have always had a bit of conflict between them. Both men and women, according to studies conducted by Australia's RAIA, are seeking flexibility in work--sometimes for children and family--sometimes for other activities and pursuits. Countries like Sweden, and the rest of Scandinavia, have created family policies that facilitate work-life balance in such a way that women and men today are 50/50 in many fields of work, including architecture.

Brazil has seen exponential growth in the number of women in all professions as well as in decreased birthrates and high representation in universities. Laws in the 70s and 80s have catalyzed much of this change.

Architects, however, are not the same as doctors, lawyers or other professionals. They are engineers and/or designers who, if they attended rigorous schools, have a back pack full of knowledge that is nearly equivalent to content of a complete liberal arts university--all-in-one. They are suited for work in many fields, but not necessarily trained to secure work in areas outside of architecture or its related disciplines of landscaping, interior design or town planning. And today, they are insisting on calling themselves "leaders" in the building industry, when too few development and engineering firms are convinced. It's probably time for engineering and architecture to merge into an appropriate degree and new nomenclature, but the resistance will likely be high!
]]> http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-09-17T16:28:02-05:00 http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-08-23T09:06:07-05:00
]]> Rebekah Opie http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-08-09T22:42:20-05:00 mmcc http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-07-12T19:36:19-05:00
Yes, we need to show that anyone can choose to be anything they will work for, and no, we don't want to add to stereotypes (a pink plan tube - come on, who would buy one of these even if you could!).

I guess my issues are inextricably linked to the Barbie packaging - when architecture should be about creation and re-use of places and spaces, healthy and responsible use of materials, effective use of energy and support of community in site use, etc, Barbie unintentionally makes it all about the outfit and the accessories.

Brava if this opens an opportunity in the minds of kids who want to be part of building our future world in tandem with our natural environment. Boo-hiss if it sells this choice as easy, stylish, transient or unimportant in any way. It's not about the glasses, folks, it about what you see with them, and what you do to achieve that vision!]]> Greenduck http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-07-05T11:41:00-05:00 Gregory Parks http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-17T18:02:56-05:00 Gregory Parks http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-17T17:53:10-05:00 Annie Benzon http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-17T17:30:23-05:00
We caught Barbie for a tour of Milan when we heard she was becoming an architect. What might she call her practice? And we hope she can avoid the pitfalls of starchitecture...

http://www.2dmblogazine.it/2011/04/architect-barbie-does-milano/]]> Tag Christof http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-16T03:45:03-05:00
This is a great piece for us to think and teach with. ]]> kelly quinn http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T19:02:45-05:00 Jessica http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T13:45:18-05:00 ]]> Emily http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T12:20:14-05:00
I also have moved to Suburbville, because I don't like being aggressively approached while walking to my car after working late. Because I want my children to go to school with their mixed income neighbors, not to private schools with others of my social status and income level. I live in a modest newer home, that is very energy efficient compared to the old converted homes in the downtown area. I wanted safe parks to walk my dog. I wanted a sense of community with my neighbors. And I wanted time to spend with my family.

YOU are the problem with the profession. You believe that there is only one lifestyle appropriate for an architect's life. If a woman puts the needs of other family members first then she obviously does not have a place in this self-absorbed and blindingly idealistic profession. You believe that all the amazing majority of the population that has moved to the suburbs is wrong and you are right. And you are going to bring back the old city one grassroots effort at a time, by efforts like condemning young women architects for their choice of property to purchase. That will surely make them feel welcome in the profession. Your attitude is a poor reflection on our field.

I was actually denied a job because of living in suburbia- they didn't want to hire someone with my personal design values, which they admittedly "determined" by my address on my resume. Never mind that it put us very close to my husband's work, within walking distance to a grocery store, and parks. Never mind that I have worked in New York City and lived another large city without a car. Never mind that I have lived in walk-ups, condos, and apartments and have rented and owned. Did they ask if I was planning on using more maternity leave, no, but my location said "family" all over it. After some justification of why I lived where I did, they seemed to calm a bit, but told me that they still weren't comfortable with my choice of residence. I never saw that one coming.

Architects like them and you don't see the give and take that goes with having more people to think about than yourself. I do not buy into the idea of using one's family's lives to make a statement about what is wrong with other peoples' life choices. There are many reasons why people choose to live where they do. A profession that jabs at and judges young women for not choosing a prescriptive "architect" lifestyle will continue not only to lose them, but to force them out.]]> Don't Argue with Idiots http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T11:43:09-05:00 Arch-Plus http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T05:18:21-05:00 Architect as a profession not a job http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T03:17:11-05:00
I agree with your perspective. I left intending to return. My reasons now have more to do with why to go back rather than why to leave. It is interesting how I have been where you were, having similar reasons, but now that I am out a different pull has taken my focus for reasons not to return.

I am very interested to hear about related fields that former architects go into when they leave traditional practice. I have tried Google searches, but what comes up doesn't represent this population that has been-there-done-that and then chooses something else. Besides the completely unrelated work, what fields or types of jobs are former architects moving into?]]> Out of it... http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T00:21:37-05:00
The main cause of envy has to do with the group of people to which we compare ourselves. So my frustrations with architecture are tainted by the people I relate to. My husband would be the primary person I relate to, so I used him as an example. Other close friends and family would the others I compare to, and their fields are predominantly medical, educational, and technical. The same issues are present with other members of the group.

While this may sound like "excuses", the mental frustration that I feel with the type of work and how it compares to other careers is the basis for why I would choose to leave the field. When comparing to other fields, it just doesn't compete. If there were to be a big change in pay, people might stick it out. There is a company I know of that actually recruits college graduates to do jobs such as making and packing boxes. They are very successful because they pay incredibly well and offer amazing benefits. While the people working there are not thrilled with their day to day tasks, they want to stay. I personally wouldn't work there because I want to like what I do, but their logic for retainment makes sense. It seems that architectural firms do not care much about retainment as there is a flood of architects on the market looking for jobs. When I took my first job in architecture, I actually made less per hour on average than I had as a waitress.

You have been lucky to find a great firm that matches your lifestyle and aspirations and is so close to home for you. I am curious as to whether or not you are married or have children. And if you are a man or woman. If you are renting or have purchased a home.

Before I married I felt able to give my all to work, knowing that somehow it would all pay off. But now that I see that my work will not pay off financially, I question if it is paying off emotionally well enough not to change careers. When in school and working in architecture full time I had blinders on: I hung out with architects, worked with architects, made friends with architects... so I didn't see what else was out there.

I'm sorry you see my question of why men stay in architecture as being silly... I really meant it as a serious question. I think it would be an interesting study. The common view is that there is something wrong with architecture as it relates to women, or that there is something wrong with women as they relate to the architectural workplace. The answer may not be seen easily in the incredibly multi-faceted reasons for why women leave (respect, pay, family, flexibility, a certain coworker....). Perhaps it would be natural for more people to leave the profession, but typically women do so because they are missing some larger desire or pressure to stay that men typically have.

I do love your last line-- while architecture is not highly paid, it is a very respected position. I completely agree. Telling someone you are an architect feels good. It is a sense of identity. It shows accomplishment, artistic ability, and intellect. It feels exclusive. Perhaps women are more able to part with their sense of professional identity than are men... I do believe there is something here to look at.]]> Out of Architect... http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-15T00:12:23-05:00
Architecture is a difficult, demanding profession with little return. Building is very complex in our day... so very different from 50 years ago: the systems are more complex, approvals are more complex, everything.

It is badly paid because our society doesn't value it... and because a lot of firm owners are disorganized (so much wasted time) and bad at writing contracts.

Long hours are spent making changes that water down a project (because of too many people who have a say on a project). So you ask yourself... why am I working so hard to VE a good design into something that looks horrible? What am I getting out of it if even the final product isn't something I can be proud of.

Also, in this day, there are too many consultants on projects so that not only the CA, but all the phases entail a lot of project management. Since the creative part dwindles down to 'nil, if I am going to be doing project management, I'd rather be in another field where I can be paid much more and work more regular hours, WITHOUT the possibility of being sued.

There are so many reasons why I left architecture... and they are mostly practical. Possibly men are more stubborn or inflexible to change, or have ego issues, or cannot afford it if they are supporting a family.

I think it is a great education, but unfortunately, unless the AIA or some organization somehow fights for more respect, pay and power, the profession is going to keep loosing a lot of creative people.

From my graduate architecture class at one of the most top ranked in the country, in 10 years already half have changed out - both men and women - into related fields or completely different fields. Mostly it is related to pay and independence and a desire to be doing something more intellectually challenging than CAD drawings which, aside from project management, comprise a large part of the (grunt) work.

I am writing as a licensed architect with 10 years experience (in five firms) on both high-end modern residential and large urban mixed-use complexes, both here and abroad.]]> Joana http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-14T21:34:04-05:00
Location & Traffic. I bike to work, it takes me 15 minutes. It takes me 10 to drive. I choose to live in a city, so I am near things…

Options. Slightly agree – but honestly – even in a low-construction city where I live, there seem to be plenty of options – there is a big international firm, mid-range good design firms, and smaller firms to choose from. I ended up where I was by being able to match my lifestyle, priorities and job expectations with this office.

Earning Potential: While I don’t have a super-high earning potential, I can make a decent living. I have gotten raises my entire career and intend to continue to do so.

Overtime. Before I became licensed, all of my jobs paid me overtime. I choose to be at a firm whose culture is to work 40 hours/week most of the time.

Pay. Pay is all over the map. I feel like I have always been paid fairly, if not making tons of money. Unless you are in the medical profession, a CEO, or a lawyer, you probably aren’t going to make tons of money. And, if you are in one of those positions, you are probably working a lot more overtime than me!

Male Clients, Consultants, and Builders. The older generation can occasionally make you feel not respected, but for the most part this has rarely been an issue for me my entire career. People’s respect often has to be earned, especially if they see a 27 year old male or female. Sometimes it is difficult to see that older men are reacting to age and perceived experience and not gender.

Flexible Schedules: As long as I get my work done, my schedule is semi-flexible. I set my hours (within reason) and when I have to work crazy overtime, I have flexibility on the other end as well.

No Part-Time: Agree. This is difficult to juggle. I would not feel guilty taking a job though knowing I was going to have children. Cross that bridge when you get there and try to work at a family-friendly office. We have more than one woman at our office on extended maternity leave, or returned part time.

Limited Time Off: Again – unless you work for the government – two weeks is standard to start out with… then it is raised with experience.

Licensing Fees: My firm has paid 100% of every fee associated with licensing, IDP, and maintenance of my license, and AIA membership.


I am not trying to argue all of your points, just wanted to offer up the idea that there are good firms to work at and you just have to be wise enough to know what you are looking for in a firm. I enjoy my job for the most part, and feel like I am successful at it. I can sympathize a little, but you do have control of some of those items, and the rest seem like excuses to me.

So I guess that still leaves the question open as to why more women leave the profession… what are the numbers exactly?

Here are some thoughts I have on it. The culture is to work hard, and since the profession has been male-dominated, women that want to cut back hours for family may feel that they don’t have the same support as other women-dominated professions. The only way to combat this is to let the fact that more women are entering the profession and demanding part-time options filter through the culture so it is accepted. Maybe there is just a lag happening.

The only other thing I can think of is the difference between your academic preparation for a profession in architecture, and the real-world experience of being an architect. The two were very unrelated for me, but to my benefit I enjoyed both for different reasons. I think there are plenty of bad firms out there who will take advantage of their employees and maybe women are more susceptible to it. I have left firms where I thought this was the case and it made me wiser to good firms. Some people don’t realize they have a choice.

I think the argument of why men stay in the profession is just sort of silly. Is our society so bent on every job allowing you to earn $100,000+ right off the bat or it is seen as crazy to stay at it? While Architecture is not the highest paid profession, it is one of the most highly respected.
]]> C. Hadder http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-14T17:11:32-05:00 Jennifer http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-14T14:41:52-05:00
It would be interesting to revamp your study so that rather than asking why women leave architecture, ask why do men stay? Rather than assuming it is the norm to stay in the profession, assume that the women are onto something and the men have hang-ups on leaving. Perhaps it is because they are the primary earners of their family and can't "opt" out the way their wives potentially could. Maybe it is a sign of weakness to admit you weren't totally happy and to change careers that men can't own up to while women can (either through ability to admit defeat, or by using children, scheduling, etc. as a "reason"). I would be especially interested to see how couples' salaries compare. For instance, if a woman architect makes less than her husband, she might be more likely to opt out than if she was making more than him. Do men who stay in the profession typically make more than their wives? If so it would make sense to stay. Or if the men are making less than their wives in other professions, then why do they stay? When do men leave and why?]]> Out of Arch http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-14T13:54:12-05:00 Mike B http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-14T13:33:04-05:00 Architecture Barbie may send more women into the field, but until some changes are made they may opt out as I frustratingly have. None of the issues I mentioned were things I considered when choosing architecture. No one ever mentioned to me that these things even mattered when choosing a profession.

Betsy, I am one of those women who would like to practice architecture, but for a number of reasons is not. Mind you I graduated near the top of my class at The top architecture school and have completed my IDP. The honest truth of why I'm not practicing (in no particular order):

Location & Traffic. To get to most firms, it would take 45+ minutes each way. Add that to the typical 9 hour work day (including lunch) plus a half hour of overtime a few days each week and I would be working longer than my husband. Resentment sets in.

Options. There are only a dozen firms or so within commuting distance. When these firms aren't hiring or don't mesh with personal values, there aren't many other options without relocating, which wouldn't be fair to my husband and his job (though we relocated for his job...). There have got to be at least 20 medical centers within 15 minutes. There are dozens of schools. Architects are limited in options compared with women dominated fields.

Earning Potential: We had to favor my husband's job in case I want to stay home with children-- his field has higher earning potential

Overtime. With salaried positions the overtime becomes resented. If we were paid overtime when we stayed late or worked through lunch, we might not feel so bad. Rather than feeling trapped at work, we would feel like we were earning more.

Pay. We get paid so much less than other professions, and even many jobs. I have family members who never even went to college who are making more than I would, while I have a master degree and a load of school loan debt. I worked harder than everyone I know and will be making about equal to or less than each of them.

Male Clients, Consultants, and Builders. While within architecture schools 40% are women, in the field the clients, engineers, builders, and other consultants tend to be men. It is hard to feel respected by a 50 year old man when you enter the profession as a 27 year old women.

Flexible Schedules: In the medical field, teaching field or other service positions that women tend to choose, schedules are more flexible. If something comes up, they are able to find someone else to pick up a shift or sub for a class. In fact, medical centers and schools will even find the replacement for them. Architects can't pass their project on to someone else for a day or two.

No Part-Time: Although I do not have children yet, I feel guilty to take a position knowing that I would like to work part-time. This doesn't seem to exist in our profession. The few I know who tried this ended up back full time or left entirely because they felt that it was too complicated, they still had to do the same amount of work but were being paid less, they missed too much of what was going on in the office, and they were less respected by other members of the firm.

Limited Time Off: Some firms require a year with no vacation when starting off. Holidays are limited to about 6. I compare this to my husband who get 3 weeks vacation, 7 personal days, and 14 paid holidays. I would constantly feel like I had to go to work while he got to stay home and make twice what I would. This is frustrating especially around the holidays when I would do all the cooking, shopping, and planning.

Licensing Fees: AIA fees and exam fees are high. Without a firm to pay for them, that is potentially thousands of dollars more (and then hundreds to maintain) that we'd have to pay.

So, although I love the architectural field and designing, my frustrations with our field compared to other fields, along with the limited options for employment, have led to my limited involvement.
]]> Out of Architecture http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-14T13:10:32-05:00 anonymous curator http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-14T13:00:19-05:00
What is it that makes women move to other fields?]]> Betsy http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-13T22:09:32-05:00 Sally Levinson http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-13T20:19:48-05:00
]]> Andrea http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-13T17:10:32-05:00 Lafemme1987 http://places.designobserver.com/feature/what-i-learned-from-architect-barbie/27638/#comments 2011-06-13T16:13:51-05:00