In the Work ft. L’Oreal Thompson Payton, Dr. Christina Bejarano, Dr. Wendy Smooth, & dancing

On this episode of She the People with Aimee Allison we’re running numbers and getting grounded with political science professors. You’ll hear: an update from Equity Observer reporter L’Oreal Thompson Payton and Northwestern’s Tabitha Bonilla, PhD, about new polling demographics and information, plus Aimee’s conversation withTexas Woman’s University’s Christina Bejarano, PhD, and The Ohio State University’s Wendy Smooth, PhD. The academics share their latest findings on women of color organizing on the ground, and their work with the Kamala Harris Project. Stick around for joyful noise from the Black Women in Executive Leadership (B-WEL). 

Christina and Wendy collaborated on new research that highlights the ways in which women of color organize differently, and what that means for the future of the movement.

Wendy explained one of the main takeaways: 

“The bottom line, Aimee, in terms of what we learned from this project, is that women of color are not waiting around for political parties to identify them as worthy of investment. They have decided that they are indeed worthy of investment, worthy of being seen by our democracy, and are figuring out innovative ways to make sure that they are leveraging the power of their communities for outcomes that actually matter for their communities. And that goes from running candidates for public office to doing in-depth voter engagement. That’s not simply transactional, meaning that we show up in the community, we knock on your door, we ask you for your vote, and then we’re going.”  

Christina added: 

“In terms of what these groups are doing — they’re also doing whatever the community is asking of them…It doesn’t revolve around just right up to the election, a couple months and then goodbye, we’ll see you at the next election. They’re actually trying to talk to their community members and say: ‘What do you need?’ Like during the height of the pandemic, they are trying to figure out, how do we provide a location to do vaccines? How do we provide for food, providing and giving away food for those that need it? What can we do to help the community in all the multiple ways that they need the help?”

Also discussed in this episode:

• The Importance of Campaign Promises by Tabitha Bonilla
• The Kamala Harris Project
• “Women of Color Mobilizing: Sistahs are Doing It for Themselves from GOTV to Running Candidates for Political Office” from Journal of Women, Politics and Policy 2022  

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Transcript

Aimee Allison [00:00:04] Welcome to see the people with Aimee Allison. I’m Aimee. And on today’s episode, you’ll hear an update from Equity Observer reporter L’Oreal Thompson Payton about new polling, demographics and information. Also in this episode is my conversation with Dr. Christina Bejarano and Dr. Wendy Smooth academics sharing their latest findings on women of color organizing on the ground, and their work with the Kamala Harris Project. And stick around for our Joyful Noise segment at the end. Straight from Brazil. 

Aimee Allison [00:00:51] Reporting from the front lines of new polling and voter survey work. Here’s equity reporter L’Oreal Thompson Payton. 

L’Oreal Thompson Payton [00:01:02] If there’s one thing research has taught political scientist Tabitha Bonilla, it’s that people are complicated and so are their political behaviors. And the 2024 presidential election is no exception. With Vice President Kamala Harris accepting the Democratic nomination for president of the United States, there is a shifting landscape for women of color in politics, and their roles are becoming more central, yet also more complex. 

Tabitha Bonilla [00:01:26] I think there’s the historical significance of her being the first Black woman, the first Asian woman, the first biracial woman. And I think there’s also significance to her being the the second Black person and the second woman as a Democratic nominee, honestly, in the last 20 years. 

L’Oreal Thompson Payton [00:01:47] Bonilla is the author of The Importance of Campaign Promises and a research assistant professor at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. 

Tabitha Bonilla [00:01:56] I think there’s a lot of dynamics happening in an electorate that allows for that to happen. The electorate itself is diversifying. There are more voters of color than ever. Younger voters tend to be more progressive even than they used to. Millennials are staying more progressive as they age compared to some of the older generations. 

L’Oreal Thompson Payton [00:02:18] Bonilla’s research focuses on how people understand political communication with a specific interest in how identity changes how people understand messages. Her current research shows a gender gap among Black voters, with younger Black men being less supportive of Harris than Black women. This gap could have significant implications for the election, as younger voters, especially Gen Z, are showing less enthusiasm for Democratic candidates compared to 2020. 

Tabitha Bonilla [00:02:43] There’s a lot of changing happening in the electorate that’s kind of corresponding to these changes in who the leadership is. And at the same time, I feel like we’re in a really difficult political moment as well. 

L’Oreal Thompson Payton [00:02:55] Says Bonilla. 

Tabitha Bonilla [00:02:56] Democrats have an array of reactions to what’s happening in Gaza and to what’s happening at the southern border and in racial justice. And, you know, I think we’re hearing a lot of the dissention within Democrats and in their responses to Democratic leaders. So I think it’s really significant that she’s taking leadership of this party at a time where, you know, Democrats are not in complete agreement about what the future of the party and the policy positions of the party need to be. 

L’Oreal Thompson Payton [00:03:25] While women of color have long led progressive movements, the weight of always leading the charge is taking a toll, especially among Black women who’ve long driven political change. While their contributions are often celebrated. There’s also a tendency to rely on Black women to push forward progressive agendas, without addressing the exhaustion that comes with constantly being the solution. 

Tabitha Bonilla [00:03:45] There’s a dependence on women of color to drive the political agenda in a more progressive fashion. Women of color organizers, I think, have done this work historically, and I think they will probably continue to do so. But I also think there’s a real acknowledgment of potential for exploitation that might be happening if there is only dependence on them to do the work. You know, it can’t just be women of color producing. People need to join women of color in organizing and mobilizing and voting for progressive change. 

L’Oreal Thompson Payton [00:04:20] For Bonilla, understanding voting patterns requires looking beyond just race or gender. Voters often identify with multiple aspects of their lives, such as profession or age, and those identities also shape their political priorities. People really are, of course they would be, savvy and they want to they want politicians to talk about what they think is important. 

L’Oreal Thompson Payton [00:04:42] As the country rapidly approaches the presidential election, there’s no doubt women of color will continue to heavily influence American politics. But whether the political system can adequately support and uplift them remains to be seen. 

Aimee Allison [00:04:56] Thanks again to L’Oreal Thomson Payton. To never Miss L’oreal’s reporting. Subscribe to Equity Observer’s newsletter at Designobserver.com. 

Aimee Allison [00:05:12] I’m Aimee Allison, and I’m here with Dr. Christina Bejarano. 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:05:16] Thank you. It’s a pleasure. 

Aimee Allison [00:05:17] And Dr. Wendy Smooth. 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:05:19] So happy to be here. 

Aimee Allison [00:05:20] Now, let me introduce these amazing women to you. Dr. Christina Bejarano is a professor of political science at Texas Women’s University with an appointment with their Jane Nelson Institute for Women’s Leadership. And she studies questions and conditions of women of color in office, how women of color can shape or influence the current electoral environment. Her most recent book is The Latino Gender Gap in U.S. Politics. Dr. Wendy Smooth is professor of Women’s Gender and Sexuality Studies, Political Science and the John Glenn School of Public Affairs at Ohio State University. She’s a scholar of intersectionality. Her scholarship centers the experiences of women of color as political actors from voters to elected office. Thank you both for being here with us and for this absolutely important focus on data and women of color. 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:06:11] Thank you for having us. 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:06:13] So glad to be here, Amy. 

Aimee Allison [00:06:14] But this whole Black and brown women’s research is not new to you, I guess. It’s not new to both of you. But the thing that is new is bringing experts on the academic side in with practitioners. 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:06:26] Yeah, we have always understood ourselves as scholars who blur the lines right between academia and the field or practice or practitioners, because theory and when we think about theory, how we make meaning of the world can happen in the course of doing. And that’s very much rooted in women of color feminisms. Black feminism has always thought about the theoretical center of the everyday lives of women and their experiences and how women of color make meaning out of their everyday existence. So it’s not just about what academics who read books like Christina and I do a lot of of of that work, but it’s also about what are we learning from people who are doing. 

Aimee Allison [00:07:23] You know, I want to also talk about this Kamala Harris project. Christina, you’re involved in. What’s the Kamala Harris project? 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:07:30] Yes. So Wendy and I are both involved in it. Wendy has been involved with the group, I think, since they first started, which was as VP Harris was about to be VP Harris and has continued through this campaign to include researchers that are not just political scientists, but political science, history, communications, public policy, all with the idea that that we are going to bring the lens of gender and race to the table and say what we see going on with both how Harris is being treated in the campaigns, and then also how she’s doing her job as VP and potentially after what’s going to happen if she becomes president. 

Aimee Allison [00:08:15] So I invited you together because of a recent article that you published, Women of Color Mobilizing: Sisters are Doing it for Themselves. From GOTV to running candidates for political office. So before we get into that article, what brought the two of you together? 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:08:30] We we have been sort of practicing how we we talk about it because we have to think. And we were like, well, we’ve been around each other for so long. We’ve been asking similar questions, but in our particular racial and ethnic grouping. So in terms of me, I’ve been doing Latinas in politics. Wendy is doing similar work with voters and candidates from the African-American or Black community. And we realized we can benefit from being able to talk to each other and being able to see, especially as those coalitions among women of color. And I think Wendy can explain the pinpoint, like when did we actually come to to start this larger project? 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:09:17] Sure. You know, as Christina has said, and we’ve kind of talked a little bit about, we’re both trained as political scientists. We’ve been hanging out at conferences together. We’ve been on panels together for years, and we’re looking down the row and kind of understanding, hey, Christine is asking some things that I’m very curious about as relates to African-American women. And then the question was always, we don’t know, very similar to your experiences with looking for data, Aimee. We don’t know about the experiences of Asian-American women in politics, or we don’t know about the experiences of Native women in politics. And so Christina and I started to think about how do we bring these questions together in a more profound way. I invited Christina out to Columbus, Ohio. She was in Kansas at the time at University of Kansas, teaching and researching there. Invited her out for a conference that I was doing, just exploring these questions of how this new American electorate that we were seeing emerge, where we see and the voices of people of color really driving electoral outcomes. So we started to ask these questions about women of color in particular, who are engaged in higher numbers than we would regularly expect. And we looked at a lot of people will map this kind of emergence of the new American electorate back to the Obama the first Obama election. But Christina and I, we’re looking at that and we go back a little bit further because we could see the trends starting to emerge much earlier than that when we were seeing women of color, particularly African-American women, voting at far higher numbers than we would expect, given what we know about their socioeconomic circumstances. And so, we were also trying to figure out, we know voters don’t just show up at the polls. Voters are mobilized to the polls. And we wanted to figure out who was doing the mobilizations. 

Aimee Allison [00:11:26] Well, and and, and and help complete that story, Christina, because it’s who’s doing the mobilization. Why are women of color voting at the levels? What were some of the other base questions that you were trying through your collaboration to uncover? 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:11:43] Right. So like Wendy said, we were talking about the increased voters, like you just said, increase candidates and increase candidates access for women of color. And we had each individually been going about that in our own separate ways and our own separate research. But they were connected. And so we wanted to connect them to say it was women of color that were doing the organizing to bring about these changes in increased voter impact for minority communities and an increase to women of color who are running and who were being successful and winning. So that’s where that article title comes from. The idea that these women of color are mobilizing their communities themselves. So taking it upon themselves to start organizations, to start coalitions and to do a lot of the groundwork that we as political scientists had not been able to talk about. Because in political science, we assume the organization that’s doing all the groundwork to increase the voters and get the candidates, are political parties. And so we wanted to amplify, and being able to talk about what’s going on with women of color as the leading leaders in their communities, starting organizations, and what have they been doing since? 

Aimee Allison [00:13:03] Is it fair to say that your your research has shown that women of color are approaching building political power very differently than, let’s say, your average white guy that’s running for office?

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:13:17] Absolutely. One of the things, as Christina keeps pointing back to is this contrast in terms of the use of the political parties to galvanize candidates for public office and then also to turn out voters in communities. What we were seeing as we began to talk to organizations across the country, and then also some just internal mapping of understanding where voters were showing up and where were we seeing these incredible surges in what we would think about as low propensity voters, voters that we don’t think of. 

Aimee Allison [00:13:54] And that that just for the rest of us. Yeah, low propensity being … 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:13:59] Absolutely. These are the voters who don’t show up at every election. They may show up at occasionally for a presidential election. We also tend to think about socioeconomic demographics as mapping low propensity voters. So when voters are not continuously voting in every election cycle, they become more susceptible to the practice of voter purging, which I’ll say is a natural component of our electoral process and system. You go in the system, you kick the tires, you make sure that the electorate that you are anticipating is still the current electorate. So you purge for people that you know are deceased. And the like. But what we’ve seen in more recent times is that that voter purging can often be a way that low propensity voters become further alienated from the political process. And so what we were seeing is that women of color organizations, were very interested in maintaining the ties to democracy, small d right, with their communities in terms of not only continuous elections where people are showing up continuously election cycle after election cycle be it presidential or midterm election and the like, but that people understood and were interested in why the vote mattered. And so a lot more emphasis around voter engagement, we were seeing with women of color groups really connecting to the electorate rather than the kind of transactions that we commonly see political parties engage in. And so that was one of the key differences that started to emerge when we started to look at women of color organizations who were involved in this democracy work. 

Aimee Allison [00:16:04] And what kind of organizations did you talk to? 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:16:06] So we had an opportunity through this project to really map what we talk about as an ecosystem of women of color organizations. And when I say ecosystem, I’m talking about an intricate web of organizations who, Aimee, as you would appreciate, they’re in coalition together thinking about broad questions of connecting communities to democracy. So one of the fun things was the first part is finding the organizations to begin with. You know, as community groups. Some would have websites and some would not. Some may have had websites that have lapsed over time. So this became a real investigative reporter style project at its onset because we had such a time identifying the organizations that are doing the work. One of the things I have to keep, I keep talking about doing the work. These are groups that are on the ground, mobilizing voters on the ground, registering people to vote on the ground, talking to people about the ways in which their vote matters for the issues that they care about. And so in doing so, they’re not sitting behind the computer, as we do from sunup to sundown and looking at websites and thinking about all of those components. They’re out in the field doing the work. We wanted to ask them about what they were up to. And they’re like, “Well, how are you in the work?” And so we had to start to talk about the ways in which our work could come to elevate what they were doing. And that is the way that we began to make inroads in connecting with these organizations and to really getting buy in from their leaders and trust from their leaders of the organizations, because got people poking around asking you questions about “How are you raising money to do the work that you’re doing? How are you choosing to select these communities that you’re working in?” Those aren’t questions you want to ask and answer just to any any group of people. And so we had to do a lot to instill the trust of the organizational leaders and the members of the organization. But the bottom line, Aimee, in terms of what we learned from this project is that women of color are not waiting around for political parties to identify them as worthy of investment. They have decided that they are indeed worthy of investment, worthy of being seen by our democracy, and are figuring out innovative ways to make sure that they are leveraging the power of their communities for outcomes that actually matter for their communities. And that goes from running candidates for public office to doing in-depth voter engagement that’s not simply transactional, meaning that we show up in the community, we knock on your door, we ask you for your vote, and then we’re gone. 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:19:22] To add to what Wendy said in terms of what these groups are doing, they’re also doing whatever the community is asking of them. So that’s the part where it’s also not as transactional, it doesn’t revolve around just right up to the election a couple of months and then goodbye, we’ll see you at the next election. They’re actually trying to talk to their community members and say, what do you need? Like during the height of the pandemic, they are trying to figure out: How do we provide a location to do vaccines? How do we provide for food? Providing and giving away food for those that need it? What can we do to help the community in all the multiple ways that they need the help? 

Aimee Allison [00:20:03] I guess I want to just kind of put it in that in the context of political science or data, it sounds like this analysis of women of color on the ground who were essentially doing the fundamental work outside political parties of engaging communities in the citizenship democratic process. It sounds like this is innovative new kinds of work. Is that right? 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:20:29] Yes, because I mean, as Christina has described, you know, one of the things that assumptions that we make in the literature to date in terms of how scholars have approached these questions of who mobilizes voters. You know, that question is basically what our research is showing, because it’s such a contrast to what the findings of the larger literature is, is that those are responses to how are white voters largely mobilized? How are white candidates largely identified to run for public office? When we look at these questions and center the experiences of women of color, what we find is a very different mapping of how that work happens in real time. We see a very different engagement or relationship to politics and voting. When you ask a woman of color can a potential candidate, if she wants to run for office and she’s a community activist and she’s engaged in her community, she says why? I am doing the work that I would be doing otherwise that you want me to do inside these political systems and political apparatuses like city council or state legislatures or school boards and the like. They have to be in some ways convinced, right. To engage and do some of that work because their work is so connected to community and beyond these notions of a transactional style of of politics, they’re much more relational based, which is very different from how we traditionally think about politics in the kind of old, good old boys. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. So what gets them interested in running for office are questions that we’re having a great time exploring, thinking about the ways in which they’re providing a broader sense of democracy. Because rights are not about, we think about democracy and rights and all of those questions. Rights have to be enabled. People have to have the basic things that they need in order to be strong participants in their local government or be strong participants in their community. Those kinds of basic needs have to be fulfilled first before your rights really come to life. And so these women are really pushing us to rethink some of the common things that we think about in terms of who is a citizen and how citizenship works and rights and responsibilities work in American society. 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:23:20] Can I also just elaborate on what Wendy said, just to also point out, this kind of goes back to the start of our conversation. We realize we are not the first ones to say that women of color are doing an unusual style of politics, that this also goes back to those who came before us, those that served as our foundation with our research and our theories, like with Carol Hardy-Fanta in terms of Latinas in politics, there’s a different style of leadership and of getting involved in politics among women of color. Thinking about the community first instead of thinking, What does it look like for me to be successful and gain higher and higher office? It’s important to make that distinction because we’re now seeing that different style of leadership and in politics prove fruitful in this way for voter engagement and increased women of color as candidates. And we’re also seeing this as our as VP Harris being our presidential candidate, even talking in the debate this week about a different style of leadership and what it means for us to think about what does a president look like? What do we want our president to do for us? And I think with what our Wendy and I are taking away from our research is how our women of color again highlighted as being the ones that are trying to connect their communities and bring about these these increased voters to the table to help sustain our democracy as we see it?

Aimee Allison [00:24:57] You mentioned the you mentioned the debate and the one line that I heard from VP Harris that really resonate has been resonating with me. And she said, you know, when I was doing this work, I never asked the person if they’re Democrat or Republican. And I asked if they were okay. This is the brand of politics or the style of politics that you’re talking about, isn’t it? 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:25:18] Yes. And so she even said what I offer is a new generation of leadership. So, again, some of our previous, like I think Obama also did this as well, thinking about the different style of leadership and the connection to communities. And I think with our current climate, we are, like Wendy said, looking for that. We need more than just going and voting and seeing who wins. We see it as as affecting our everyday lives. It can affect our lives even what’s going to happen with the election. 

Aimee Allison [00:25:50] And let me just go to you, Wendy. It’s like the work that you’re doing. My impression of it is even as we have the ascendancy of women of color, we have two Black women who are running in general the primaries, who got through the primaries or running for Senate. We have Kamala Harris running for president, and we have a whole plethora of women of color running for Congress and state legislative seats. And I guess my my thing is, like the work and the scholarship and the data that you’re gathering still isn’t common knowledge or do I have this to have this wrong? You know, how how would things change if people who planned out which candidates to support or how to reach voters? How would it change, Wendy? 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:26:37] That’s a really great question. You know, this is all really happening. I mean, we are making history, right, as a society in terms of seeing this emergence of women of color at this very high level of politics. And, you know, you talk about the two Senate races, you know, that is we are in a remarkable moment. Yes. The VP running for the presidency is a remarkable moment. And so this is where we’re making history as we’re you know, we’re flying the plane and building it in some ways because the work that we’re doing, the articles, the interviews that we’re doing, it’s all happening in real time while things are happening on the ground. 

Aimee Allison [00:27:20] Something about this moment, as you’ve been saying, is indicating more is possible. And I don’t think average people and even people who are involved in electoral politics and that ecosystem you’re talking about, who are used to an old style of of politics, understand what is happening. And I think the data is helping to explain that. And that’s where I want to get down to this, because the people who listen to this podcast, we all you know, a lot of people are aware of politics, but what is the very core of the thing that’s happening that people do not see right now that your scholarship is uncovering? 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:27:58] Sure. So there’s been a lot of talk in the media, for example, of the 44,000 African-American plus women who sat on a Sunday night call the day that Kamala Harris was announced as running for the presidency. And people were shocked. Oh My Gosh! 44,000 women of color assembled on a Zoom call. What our research was showing, we weren’t shocked at all. Right, Christina. We were like, okay, that is a great that that’s a more sizable number. But women have been organizing. Women of color have been organizing in that way for some time. And these networks, the ecosystem that we talk about in our research, is a powerful coalition of women who are tied together through their social ties. They’re tied together through the organizations that they work with on the ground. So it wasn’t surprising to us to see that kind of display of political engagement by women of color on behalf of women of color. And if Aimee, if I can just underscore this one thing you asked us, what’s the big takeaway from our project is that women of color are not you know, we talk about them, I think one of the popular means that have circulated is like Black women saving democracy. And, you know, you have that kind of caped crusader notion around women of color. But we’re finding, I think is really kind of an interesting turn on this, is that women of color are coming to this work with this idea that they are coming to save democracy and kind of fly in with their capes and their Wonder Woman costumes. Right. What women of color are doing and what they are committed to is saving their communities. And it maps to what we know about women of color feminist scholarship. When you center the experiences of women of color, bell hooks taught us this years ago “from margins to center”, right, when you center the lives and stories and understandings and experiences of women of color and you invest in that space. Guess what happens? Everybody, everybody benefits! Everybody sees this miraculous turn. So when we see Americans more engaged in democracy and this idea that women of color are really coming in to save democracy, women of color are saving their communities. And when you save their communities, everybody benefits. 

Aimee Allison [00:30:41] There is something about what you’re saying that really speaks to some larger trend that we’re in the midst of and is hard to articulate because we’re experiencing this. The term women of color, which we all know was innovated in the 1970s, actually in Texas, as a part of this first and only National Women’s Conference that was organized back then. Was this never intended to be a term of racial identity? But we now live in 2024 at a time where we have greater acknowledgment that all of us carry multiple identities, many overlapping intersecting identities. And I guess my question for you, Christina, is did this data tell you something about the nature of solidarity, the strength of this idea of women of color to build lasting political power as we lead America forward? 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:31:44] That’s a big question. That’s a good question. So I think we’re also within our research, investigating the the use and the comfort level with this term “women of color”. So we also are are we say, women of color, because for us, we have to also explain who we’re talking about in terms of racial, ethnic minority women coming together. And they may be focused on on their particular race or ethnicity, but they also see things in common and this linked fate with each other. And so they not maybe not all see the same usefulness of the term, but I think they see that there’s potential for coalition partners. And strategically, it can be something that is very useful for them to think about, even figure out how they can connect communities and connect multiple communities who are made up of vulnerable people right now who are needing attention and needing their help. 

Aimee Allison [00:32:49] But we need to understand that, right, Wendy? In terms of what are the dynamics that impact Kamala Harris and also other women of color who are running for office?

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:32:57] Sure, so folks like Christina and I were at our best when we can help to make sense of these longer trends and broader connections to our history, to the ways in which Americans have voted over time, the ways in which particular tropes operate both in politics and in popular culture. What I mean by tropes, the kinds of insidious stereotypes that exist in American society. We’re able to call out as scholars, when those get mobilized to like this whole way that people have invoked Vice President Harris’s previous romantic relationships as some way of indicating that she has made it to the top based on being promiscuous in some way. As scholars we know, that has a long history in American politics, has a long history in American society because it’s rooted in, for African-American women in particular, rooted in notions of slavery and the ways in which African-American women’s bodies were consumed for economic gain, and they lack the bodily integrity to control their own bodies. The way that we rationalize, and when I say “we”, I’m strictly using the American royal “we”. The way that our society rationalized that consumption of African-American women’s bodies for economic gain to produce the next generation of enslaved Africans was to say that African-American women were highly promiscuous, that they were hypersexualized, that they yearned for a kind of sexual conquering. You put it in in those terms that you’re able to map it back to those realities of our US history. What we see at our current media and political pundit conversations becomes all the more weighty because it is draped in a particular history of racialized and gendered understandings of African-American womanhood. And when we unpack that, we understand the level of insult that is being drawn or leveraged towards Vice President Harris in different ways. Our scholarship does all of that hard work. 

Aimee Allison [00:35:40] That’s a lot of work because we’re we’re hearing it. We read about it. And I would just say, as a biracial woman, that hearing hearing Donald Trump question the identity of Kamala Harris reminded me of the first time my identity was questioned. It gets you deep in your DNA. And I just say, Christina, like that’s that’s also an old tactic to try to define somebody else, someone else’s identity. 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:36:13] And also to tell you who you are. So that’s also what Trump has done with Harris in terms of you just decided to be Black now. So this idea, and I think a lot of people of color have had this experience, so being told who you are, question whether you belong in America. Whether you’re an immigrant, well, how did you get here? Are you legal? And so all of all of this that may come with these negative stereotypes, with our different and diverse identities and being able to talk about it and try to help clarify what’s going on. Even to our students, to journalists, to press. That’s what I think we’re trying to do as academics is to try to help bring some clarity to what we see going on. 

Aimee Allison [00:37:03] We are people for whom the capacity to build power and change things is within our hands. Thank you both. And really, my last question for both of you is that, you know, the research you’re doing that you’ve been doing for years is speaking to this moment, this moment, this political cycle. And, you know, I really want to hear from both of you. And I can start with you, Wendy. How is this moment to you? What is this moment to you? And what should it be for women of color for whom you have dedicated your life’s work to contributing an understanding of Black and brown women in this country? 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:37:45] Yeah. That’s a really great question, Aimee. As a woman of color, I definitely, a Black woman, I definitely have benefited from the type of women that I have an opportunity to research. Part of my calling, my scholarly work, is to tell their stories. And when we tell their stories, we’re telling the stories of America and we’re bringing to life and we’re bringing to understanding, multiple ways of accomplishing kind of core goals of moving society forward. What we seek to do in our sphere of influence is to bring value to that work, to allow others to see the connections between that work and the advancement of our democracy. When people feel included, it changes the way that we’re able to engage. It changes the way that we’re able to interact. And by us telling that story, bringing that story core front and center. It’s our hope that reporters will begin to see the value of centering women of color. Funders who work to support this work will understand the importance of supporting broad coalitions of women of color working together, that you don’t just put five pennies over here for this particular racial ethnic group and five pennies over here that there are ways that you can fund these collectives and these organizations and these kind of fuzzy mobilizations. They deliver. They deliver the work. And the more we’re able to tell that story, the more that we’re able to broaden who participates. 

Aimee Allison [00:39:30] Yeah, Christina I’m just thinking about the fact that right now we are in a really historic moment. So what is this, your scholarship, and this moment mean for you? 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:39:41] It’s, I think a way that it’s coming full circle for us, as as we were. I think both of us, Wendy and I, when we started to do our work, having to clarify why it’s even important that we’re looking at women of color. So we kept having to do those fights within our political science colleagues basically saying this is why I did two books on Latina vote, like one on Latina voters, one on Latina candidates. It’s important. So I think it’s it’s really great to now see. Okay. We’re able to talk about the importance of women of color leaders in politics and to also for us to be able to amplify the important work that they’re doing to bring more communities to the to politics and to get people of color engaged and to just amplify their voices and and highlight the important work they’re doing. So I think for Wendy and I, and especially for me, I feel I feel it’s hard to it’s hard to articulate this moment. So just to be able to give voice to these important women of color and then also to be able to then say, what are we doing for our ancestors, our community leaders, all of those heros we talked about with the work that they’ve they’ve set up and even our mothers, it’s all coming full circle. So we we are I guess I think it energizes us to continue with the work that we’re doing. 

Aimee Allison [00:41:09] It’s got to feel good. It’s got to feel good. From my perspective, having two scholars who have been in this work largely in the background.  Largely, as you said, I can just imagine, to be a fly on the wall of those meetings with your political science department and and make it an argument for the fastest growing group of people in America. The most influential group that’s defining the future. And to finally, as scholars have your moment in the sun. I’m just so happy and grateful you’re both here. And just let me say one of the most interesting things about this moment is we have Kamala Harris’s campaign centered on joy. She’s the candidate of the joy. And I think having Kamala Harris be the candidate of joy both is strategic in a way that maybe you all could appreciate. And it also really opens up the possibility that the work that we’ve been doing, much of it behind the scenes, can actually be this joyful revelation right now. It’s amazing. Dr. Wendy Smooth. Dr. Christina Bejarano, you’re awesome, you’re important, and thank you so much for spending time with us today. 

Dr. Christina Bejarano [00:42:23] Great. Thank you for your work as well. 

Dr. Wendy Smooth [00:42:24] Thank you. And thank you for what you do. 

Aimee Allison [00:42:40] As always, here’s Joyful Noise. 

Aimee Allison [00:42:43] I spent the last year in a fellowship with Black Women’s Executive Leadership, and it was my first time being surrounded by the global majority, which are Black women from all over the globe. And we ended the fellowship in Salvador de Bahia in Brazil. And as we were going through our leadership training, we spontaneously started dancing. And this is what it sounded it like. [Music plays]

[00:43:20] We all spoke different languages, but as Black women from across the globe, we were united in that moment, by something that was bigger than all of us. It was that sense of joy and movement and togetherness. 

Aimee Allison [00:43:46] She the people with Aimee Allison is produced in collaboration with Design Observer. For more information about us and our guests, plus a full transcript of the episode, check out our website at DesignObserver.com/shethepeople. And spread the joy! Make sure you’re subscribed to She the People with Aimee Allison on the podcatcher of your choice and share this episode with your friends. And don’t forget to tag @DesignObserver and @_shethepeople, on whatever social media platform you’re on. She the People’s a registered trademark of Aimee Allison. Our thanks to Ruth Ann Harnisch, Susan McPherson, Susan Sawyers and Jonathan Speed for providing critical funding and other resources. For guidance and essential insights, we’re deeply grateful to David Kyuman Kim, Alvin B. Tillery Jr., Bernicestine McLeod Bailey, Kevin Bethune and the entire Design Observer and She the People community. Aviva Jaye wrote the theme music for the show Justin D. Wright Of Seaplane Armada mixed the show. She The People with Aimee Allison is produced by Alexis Haut and Adina Karp.