Candace Parker & Michael C. Bush on Purpose, Leadership and Meeting the Moment

In this episode of DB|BD, you’re in for a two for one– or in this case, a double double.

First up, host Ellen McGirt sits down with Michael C. Bush, the CEO of Great Place to Work. Every year, Great Place to Work sends out a survey to 23 million people across 170 countries to ask them how valued and respected they feel at work. Companies that score well on the survey are bestowed with the honor of being, you guessed it, a certified Great Place to Work.

Bush talks with Ellen about why Great Place to Work companies are also some of the most profitable, how expectations for workplace culture vary around the world and why consistency is an essential leadership trait. 

“Why would you want some people to have a great experience at work and other people to feel less than?” Bush says, addressing business leaders. “You’re paying them all, you’re heating them all, you’re training them all, you’re comping them all, benefiting them all. You should really want them all to be having a great experience. And how do you know if they have any great experience? You need to ask them. Somehow. You don’t have to use my tool. You don’t have to use my survey, but you need to have some way for people to give you honest feedback that they feel will not be weaponized. If they feel it’s going to be weaponized, you have a low trust organization and you need to work on that.”

Bush also shares his thoughts on whether leadership is based in nature or nurture and if DEI was even fully baked to begin with.

Later in the episode, Ellen chats with WNBA legend Candace Parker. Parker is a three time WNBA champion and two time Olympic Gold medalist. She is still the only W player to win Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same season. She’s also the author of the new book The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passions. On top of all that, she is a broadcaster, mom, wife and advocate.

In this live conversation, recorded on stage at Great Place to Work’s For All Summit, Parker talks about how she got the nickname “can-do”, finding her footing in the W while also nursing her daughter, embracing negativity and why her leadership advice includes signing up for a team sport.

“We’re sitting in a world now where we’re looking at women’s basketball through a whole other lens and through a whole other light. But y’all, it’s been pretty exciting for a while,” Parker reminds us. “So I don’t know if it’s changed, I think it’s just the lens for which we’re looking through it has changed. And I think it goes across the board. Within leadership, you look at the impact sports has had on women in business, 97% of C-suite women in business played a team sport. It’s not by accident. And so I think just when creating these opportunities and seizing these opportunities we have to figure out through which lens we’re looking at it and check ourselves and our perceptions at the door. People are going to lead different. That’s just the reality of it. So I just think that we as humans, you know, in creating those opportunities, have to realize what our own misconceptions are and, you know and also not allow the time to be the judgment. Like the time is now. I’m tired of firsts in the year 2025.”

On this season of DB|BD, we are Designing for the Unknown. Host Ellen McGirt asks visionary designers how they navigate uncertainty- whether it be technological disruption, global crises, or shifting cultural norms.

More on the Great Place to Work Trust Index

Candace Parker’s The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passion

Dr. Richard Cook’s lecture “How Complex Systems Fail”

James Baldwin & William F. Buckley’s 1965 debate

Transcript

Ellen McGirt: There was an amazing man named Dr. Richard Cook, may he rest in peace, who was a system safety researcher, physician, anesthesiologist, university professor, and software engineer out of the University of Chicago. And what he talked about a lot was complex systems and how they fail. He understood and was able to demonstrate repeatedly that the people who actually understand how complex systems work, especially as they grow and become unwieldy, are the ones who touch them every day. They’re the folks you should turn to when you need answers. They’re also your innovation engineers, not necessarily the investors, the C-sweeters, the people who grab the headlines. Nope, look to the people who do the work with and through others every day, and nobody I know understands this better than Michael C. Bush. Michael Bush is the CEO of Great Place to Work, which has become a global authority on workplace culture and employee experience. They do surveys, deep research, and conduct assessments that help companies transform their workplaces. But it’s Michael himself who has turned this deep observation of the human side of business into a personal mission. He has become the angel sitting on the shoulders of leaders across industries who want their companies to innovate and grow, but what he whispers in their ears is not words of affirmation or good advice, it’s data. Data that’s derived from the best possible source, the people who work for them and who touch the complex machine of the business every single day. And he was talking seriously about equity and stakeholders long before it was cool, and since, now that it’s dangerous. He’s an observer and a redesigner who believes that business can be better and he’s got the charts and graphs to prove it. He’s also my friend. I’m Ellen McGirt, and this is the Design of Business, the Business of Design. This season, we’re designing for the unknown. In this episode, we are going back to business school. Oh, and today you’re in for a two for one, or in this case, a double double. After my interview with Michael, you’ll hear an excerpt from my onstage conversation with WNBA legend, Candace Parker, also from the Great Place to Work Summit in April. You won’t want to miss it, but first, here’s Michael C. Bush. 

Ellen McGirt Michael, how are you? Thank you for being here. 

Michael C. Bush Ellen, I’m doing great and happy to be here today. 

Ellen McGirt So before we dig in, the big question is, what’s happening in the world of business? What do leaders need to know? But tell us a little bit about what Great Place to Work is. I barely touched on it in my intro. 

Michael C. Bush Yeah, you did a great job. And, you know, we’re fellow colleagues and warriors in this change, you know that we want to see and feel like it’s our responsibility to do our part. At Great Place to Work, we survey employees, and we have something called the Trust Index to find out what’s going on for people, what they’re experiencing with the people that they work with, what’s going on between them and their people manager, what’s going on between them and management- a group that they may not see that much, you know or have close proximity to, but yet they have decided whether they trust them or not. And, um, and and what’s going on in terms of their own well-being. Whether or not they feel like the organization cares about them as a person, not as an employee, which is one of our fundamental questions. Whether people feel like their leader respects them, uh their their leader is going to be honest with them, their leader is going to be fair and equitable. And people will always go, well, what’s most important? It’s the fair and the equitable. And so we measure whether or not the employee feels like somehow, because the best situations are when the work that a person does somehow links to their personal purpose. They’re trying to show that they matter and that they make a difference and that their needed. We call that pride and we measure it for that reason. And then we take those results. We do this in over 170 countries. We survey over 23 million people a year and over 23,000 customers across every industry. So we know a lot about working people on a daily basis, really getting these results. And the fun part is doing that and having employees feel like maybe if they tell the truth, someone will listen, And will do something, so there’s hope in it. And when there’s hope in it, then leaders have an opportunity to deliver on that hope, which is to actually take the results and do something. And at a lot of companies, and I’m happy to say there’s a lot them, pretty small percentage unfortunately of all companies, but there’s lot of them who take it seriously and they get the results, and then we’re able to let leaders know the things they could do to create a more high trust experience. Not for some people. Every workplace is a great place to work for some people. That’s 100%. The key is are you a great place to work for all people. 

Ellen McGirt You mentioned 170 countries participate. Do the characteristics of a great place to work change around the world? 

Michael C. Bush The thing that changes Ellen is expectations around the world. Everybody wants to be respected. You know, everybody wants to be treated within an honest way. Everybody wants to be treated fair and equitable, equitably. But as you move around the world, expectations are different. You know if you go to the Middle East, you’ll find that women don’t expect to be treated in a fair and equitable way. So it means something different. They’d like to, they’d like to, but they don’t except it. And so that’s it. When you ask somebody to score their experience because of their expectation level, they may have lower expectations, but they would like to be treated with respect and in a fair and equitable way. They understand around the world that some people are gonna do the exact same job as someone else, and one person based on caste, might make more money. People don’t like it, not everybody likes it, but they understand it, so that’s what’s different. It’s expectation level, the cultural differences and the history of these countries makes that different but everybody would like to be respected. Everybody would like an opportunity to grow. Everybody would the opportunity to do better. Everybody would be cared for. Those things are just human. 

Ellen McGirt You know, you became CEO 10 years ago, which is when we first met. And I was writing about race and leadership at Fortune at the time. And it’s almost like this part of our career path, the nodes that we are to each other, followed the same interesting arc as workplace expectations, to use your word, which I hadn’t really thought much about, really changed globally, but particularly for companies in the US, that there were new opportunities. To talk about identity. There were new opportunities to talk about even reparations, or there was new opportunities to talk opportunity. And then now, it feels like that’s drying up. I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit about how the conditions for these conversations have changed over the last 10 years. 

Michael C. Bush You know, Ellen, we met, yeah, you know, just a little over over 10 years, probably right about 10 years ago, and, and I remember the moment we met. 

Ellen McGirt I do too. 

Michael C. Bush And so we were standing next to each other about to do a Fortune event together, didn’t know each other, but we we met and here’s what I remember. I remember a very powerful man in the room at the time, who you were doing work with, and he didn’t know who you were, and what you were about to go and do on stage. So I was aware of what I would call disrespect. And I was aware of it because of my experience in the world. And then I remembered you going out and immediately being brilliant. And that’s before you became Ellen McGirt. Okay, before I got to see what you were going to do to change the world, this was just an idea at the time. And the other thing I remember, Ellen, is that we met. And then that night I went to a dinner doing something and I called you where you called me. I don’t remember how it started, but I was in a tiny phone booth, on a mobile phone though, in an old Italian restaurant, talking with you about what I was gonna try and do. We had just known each other like 30 minutes, but I told you what I’m gonna try to do and I said, Ellen, if you write about what I am telling you now, I’m out of business. I am going to go out of business, but I trusted you 100, and boy was that trust returned. But I remember the moment, but there was a connection between us. I felt I could tell you the truth, a truth that at that time I told very few people, that I really believed in a great place to work for all. And I meant everybody, and that everybody should have the same experience. But I knew enough about business to know, if you if you talked that way with everyone, not everybody was going to realize I was also talking about the key to not only them having a great life, but to outstanding profitability. They didn’t understand it, you know, but I had already had enough business success working this way to know the connection between personal purpose and beliefs and economic power and distribution. So so that if you’re not trying to make all the money, but you want to make enough money. This is a great way to do it.

Ellen McGirt I tell you, I remember that moment like it was yesterday too, and particularly at some dark times, and I remember meeting eyes with you at that moment of disrespect that you so graciously described and meeting eyes with you, and I thought to myself, oh, I can trust this man. He saw, he saw what just happened. And the part that you didn’t say, that I will say, is that you paused the conversation and made sure he knew my name in that moment. And that was when I saw what you were capable of. I called you an observer. I called you a redesigner. Your ability to observe that moment and navigate that moment is really what great leadership is all about. And you taught me then the patience required for massive system change and for culture change means that you don’t go for the headline. You don’t for the breaking news moment. You have to be committed to the long-form journey of this story. Because people don’t change overnight. They need time to get on board, to get fluent in the language of other people. And that was the first great lesson in that. And I just decided to hang around and see what you were going to do. And look at what you’ve done. It’s, you have, it was, Great Place to Work was a much smaller company before you got there. And I’ll tell you, you know, we played, our listeners have actually heard from you once already this season, we included a clip from your keynote at your For All Summit in Las Vegas, alongside the episode with Jon Chu, which was also amazing. And you did not hold back what you had to say. You said, in a time of crisis, our companies do better. Can you tell us about some of those numbers and some of the success stories? 

Michael C. Bush Yeah, one of the things that we track, because it’s easy, and it’s public, and everybody can check the math, is stock performance. Right. So they aren’t private numbers, so we track those too. But stock performance is something that everybody can double click on. And we’ve done this for many years, looking at the companies that we call great, based on the experience that their employees are having. The only way you make our designation of being a certified Great Place to Work on one of our lists is your employees have to make that so. And so it’s fascinating to, okay, it’s a great place to work, but is it making any money? Because we don’t think that’s a good place to work. A great place of work has to stay in business. Being great and going out of business isn’t great, you know, for all that’s that’s for sure. And so Russell does a modern analysis. So they stay on top of the stock market and what’s going on and each year they take the companies that we put on the 100 best list that are publicly traded and they look at their performance against the Russell 1000, 2000, 3000, really the Russell 3000 and the S&P 500. And what that data shows, Jefferies does a similar report where they look at our companies, is that since 1998, companies that we have called great. Outperform all those indices. And then we took a look at [00:13:16]since the election, where a lot of volatility, since the elections, tons of volatility. How did our companies perform during that? By a factor of two, they outperform the indices. So when there’s chaos and crisis and volatility, the things every investor fears, they outperformed those indices, so they’re better at good times, and they’re even better at bad times because their people hang in there. [31.6s] The people are resilient. The people don’t fear that when something crazy is happening in the world, that these companies are gonna whack them, you know, are gonna do a massive layoff. They don’t have that fear, you know. But I think this business, these business realities make it so that CEOs do not see this as culture work. Which I never want a CEO to see this is culture work. I want a CEO to see this as it may fit with your personal values, it might not, but this is as we call it, the new business as usual. 

Ellen McGirt In 2024, you wrote an essay on LinkedIn. You’re very prolific, and you always say what’s on your mind. But the big question was, was DEIB, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging, ever really alive in the workplace? And it was a great question. And so given that we are in a period of retrenchment and anybody who believes in equity and wants to grow and run their companies this way aren’t saying so publicly. But is the issue that diversity, equity, and inclusion, as it was developing, was underdeveloped to begin with, that we’re losing the opportunity to fine tune that work while people are focused on other things? And if that’s true, then what should we all be doing now to make sure that the seeds that were planted continue to grow? 

Michael C. Bush One thing that business people knew and still know is that it’s really hard to find great talent. There’s just, it’s hard to do. And the way we do it is flawed. We do it through relationships, proximity, power, things we’re comfortable with, schools that you went to. Um, and, and those kinds of things, those overshadow the hiring decision and are really problematic in terms of promotions, the, when you’re running a company and you’re solving complex problems and you start doing global work, like I’ve been lucky to do, and you are solving a problem, you start to not even think about the fact that on this matter, I need people from Europe around the table. I need people from Africa around the table. I need to people from Asia around the table. I need people from America, and that doesn’t mean U.S. It’s it’s North America, Latin America, South America. You you understand that it’s just so basic you don’t need a diversity coach. You know this is complicated, like the world right now. How do we talk about things in the world right now? You got to have all of them because they all have a very different point. In Europe, they are very pissed at being told out of their emphases how to operate business in their countries. You better have that around the table when you’re solving a problem. If you don’t, because you don t feel like you need that difference, you’re just going to make a really bad decision. This is something business people know. So here we are in 2025 where we are are told to pretend that that differences don’t exist we are told to pretend things are fair and equitable. You’re just being told they aren’t. They are fair, and equitable, and by the way, everything’s fine, and you should promote and hire solely based on what a person can do, you know, their skills and their qualifications. I love that. You know, we wouldn’t have met, Ellen, if the world worked that way. We met because these things were not true. You know, there’s a group of people who want people to believe those things are true. And so there’s kind of a version of it. But anybody who has been lucky enough to have a passport and to travel, because once If you get lucky enough to do that, you know, for me, I was 30 years old. And I got passports now fully stamped out. But my life changed when I went to see another place because I had been taught so much about U.S. Supremacy that greatest country on earth, I’m gonna make that stand and can make that case. I have that pride, but I learned, we weren’t even fricking close to first, okay? We’re like an infant in a diaper compared to the rest of the world. But you have to go and see it. I was been lucky. That reminds me, I’ve been doing a lot of a reading of James Baldwin. I’d watched his debate with William Buckley two days ago. That’s how I spent my Memorial Day. And so when I listened to those things in 1965, I was seven years old. And could not do a lot of things as a seven-year-old. When we would travel to the South, which is where we did every year, there was a lot I couldn’t do that I could do in California, but I could not in Barnesville, Georgia. So I actually, there are a lot of things that aren’t theoretical for me, but listening to Buckley talk reminded me of what I’m hearing today. And in listening to James Baldwin talk about how he traveled to Europe and learned about the true history of what he called the American Negro compared to what he had learned in school. A very educated man, you know, had a distorted community but him traveling opened his eyes up and made him want to return to America and make it better. So I was inspired, you know, after hearing that. So I feel like we’ve got a cloud over the country right now that’s been here before. It never, it’s always in the sky, but sometimes it moves over the country and it has sat on our country for a long time. 400 years, it sat over our country. And then we started to get some sunlight through. I feel like more of it is over us now, but it will not last. It will not last because lies just don’t. Um, when, when you, when aren’t telling the truth, you know, about, about a certain situation and I know, I believe business leaders while trying their best, which they should, to stay out of the politics, because all they’re going to do is run up their legal bill and divide their workforce. So they have to be careful and thoughtful. They believe this will pass as well. 

Ellen McGirt It sounds like what you’re advising for anybody who’s touching the business machine and working in any capacity is to stay open and to continue their own education. It seems to be like the one critical piece that individuals can do is to stay open, open to new ideas, new experiences, open to people, because the number one thing that’s gonna get us through is the scenario you described, where people who are very different from each other gather around a table, a project, or an idea, and they meet the moment, which is what design is good for, but it’s also what leadership is good for. 

Michael C. Bush Yeah. And you have to, and you have to do things, you know, it’s a lot, a lot of times people will say you have to get comfortable doing what’s uncomfortable. I’m not comfortable doing what’s uncomfortable. That’s why it’s uncomfortable. Oh, okay. And so I, and it’s not a, I don’t know how you learn it. You just have to be able to do it. A job of a leader is to make everybody in the company feel like the company cannot succeed without them being great and having a great experience, which is a great feeling when you feel that And so, you know that this drives performance, by the way, this builds trust, giving people compassionate, candid feedback on how they’re doing. And you only give candid feedback compassionately because you care about that person, because it takes more work. And these are not soft skills, we call them power skills, because there’s great power in them and you can spread the power and get more unified power, more collective power. That’s why we call it power skills. It’s nothing soft about this. If you can connect with another person and inspire them and let you know that you care about them while you’re doing the work. You’re gonna be transformed and they are too. So we have these behaviors, we call them the nine high trust behaviors, thanking people and recognizing people, rewarding people, welcoming people. We say, if you don’t, when you’re going to hire somebody and you’re like wondering if you trust them or not, do not hire them. Because once they’re hired, you got to trust them 100%. Now they could lose it, but it’s just an orientation and a view between how humans can interact so that everybody can have the great experience that you might be having. Why would you want some people to have a great experience at work and other people to feel less than? You’re paying them all, you’re heating them all. You’re training them all. You’re comping them all, benefiting them all you should really want them all to be having a great experience. And how do you know if they have any great experience? You need to ask them. Somehow. You don’t have to use my tool. You don’t have to use my survey, but you need to have some way for people to give you honest feedback that they feel will not be weaponized. Well, if they feel it’s going to be weaponized, you have a low trust organization and you need to work on that.

Ellen McGirt I hear that. I hear that. That was a master class, brother. Thank you so very much. I love the power skills. I’m going to really spend some time thinking about this. I want to end on a philosophical note. This is your philosopher king hat here. You also wrote on LinkedIn back in the day that, quote, I have been a capitalist since I was 12, but that you don’t want to be a quote, a man who was limited because he satisfied only one stakeholder, the shareholder. You’ve walked us through how to reclaim the stakeholder conversation which has been truncated so abruptly. But in your opinion, can capitalism be a positive force? And how can it shift into a system that really addresses, recognizes, cares about all stakeholders? 

Michael C. Bush Capitalism can be the most destructive force on the planet. I think we have far more examples of that than the opposite. And where it goes wrong is when a few people benefit. That’s where it goes wrong, because greed enters. [00:25:10]People actually think because they have a C in their title, they deserve a whole lot more than everyone else. And so, you know, I work hard. I work a lot of hours. I’m one of those people, but I never think about, oh, I’m working so hard because I watch people flipping burgers at McDonald’s. They’re working hard too. They are working hard and somebody’s watching them and machines are measuring things. And they got stress at home. I got stress home, not like they do. So I’m aware of these things. I’m not gonna call my work hard work. You know, I put in, I’m very committed, but it ain’t hard. I’ve seen hard work all around me. So, and still do, you know, every day. You don’t have control over these. I can take time off when I need it. I can work the way that I want to work. A lot of people can’t, you know, there are people who are trying to get time off now in December. They’re putting in bidding to see if they can get time-off in December, my world is different than that. So no violin for me, you know, and you know it takes like some compassion and some empathy. [78.5s] You know, looking at the world in in a more accurate way, and Ellen, I forgot the question. I’m just flying along here, I don’t even know. 

Ellen McGirt No, you answered it. I asked you to save the world through a better system than capitalism, but you are so consistent, and you always have been. You were born to do this work, Michael. We don’t have a chance to go through your whole history here, but you really were, and you’re so consistent. I learn from you every time I talk with you, and I’m so grateful that you’re in my life. I am curious, though, since you really came into the world thinking about this, in your experience, do you think a person who ascends to leadership, who is new to all of this, who isn’t patient or courageous or empathetic particularly, can evolve into the kind of leader that has these power skills?

Michael C. Bush I absolutely do. There’s two things in life I think about a lot. One of them is why do I believe the things that I believe? I think of that and why do I need to believe the things I believe. And there’s a lot of work there and a lot of gold there to think about those things and encourage other people to do the same. But what we have tons of data to show a leader who, every first time people leader, there’s a few that are great, because it’s natural. And they have a way of connecting and inspiring people. Those are, you know, pretty much nature and some nurture, you know put together there. But there are some that nature and nurture made it so that interacting with other people is really difficult. If that leader wants to get better at it, 100%, that leader can get better at it. 100%, you are not scarred for life, or one of those people. There are tons of great leaders, for all leaders, I have the scores to prove it, severe introverts who will still tell you they don’t like leading people. So this is a thing that you have to wanna do it. I don’t know, and it’s not for everyone. And I think one mistake we make is promoting people and never asking, do you want to lead people? 

Ellen McGirt Oh, Michael C. Bush, philosopher king, purpose driven, power WhatsApp user, thank you for the time today. Best of luck and I know I’m gonna see you around. Take care. 

Michael C. Bush Thank you, Ellen. 

Ellen McGirt Candace Parker is considered one of the best WNBA players of all time. She is a three-time WNBA champion and two-time Olympic gold medalist, and she is still the only player to win Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same season. Candace was drafted number one out of the University of Tennessee in 2008 by the Los Angeles Sparks, where she played for 12 seasons. Then she led both the Chicago Sky and the Las Vegas Aces to championship rings before officially retiring in 2024. The Sparks will retire Candace’s number 3 jersey in a televised ceremony on June 29th. Candace has been a success off the court as well. She’s an NBA, WNBA, and NCAA color commentator on networks including ESPN, CBS, and TNT. She’s also the author of the new book, The Can-Do Mindset: How to Cultivate Resilience, Follow Your Heart, and Fight for Your Passions. Trust me, it’s amazing. On top of all that, she is a mom and a wife and an advocate. It was a real pleasure to sit down with her at the Great Place to Work Summit in Vegas back in April. We talked about how she got the nickname Can-Do, finding her footing in the W while also nursing her daughter, and why her leadership advice includes signing up for a team sport. Here’s our amazing conversation. Enjoy. 

Ellen McGirt We all know what the world can do to talented young people who dazzle and entertain us, but not you. Not you. You broke barriers for yourself and others, has long been prepared to discuss the hard truths about bigotry and ignorance, and made sure that girls knew that they could dunk too. And now, your greatest achievement to date, you’ve written a book. This is the only physical version of this book, although it is available for pre-order. The Can-Do Mindset, that encapsulates everything that you are about in your signature style, unflinching, generous, honest. I call it a part memoir, part roadmap, and part leadership manifesto, which means that you should buy many, many copies, give them to your friends, and expense it. Please join me in welcoming, once again, Candace Parker. Thank you for being here. 

Candace Parker Thank you so much. 

Ellen McGirt We’re gonna be moving some merch today. So, Can-Do is the mindset I wanna dig into that second, but it’s also your name. Tell us how you got that name. 

Candace Parker Growing up, I had two brothers that are 8 and 11 years older than me. My oldest brother played 10 years in the NBA. He was teammates with this guy named LeBron James in Cleveland. I don’t know if you guys know him. And my middle brother, Marcus, is a doctor. And so people come up to him all the time and they’re like, what happened to you. And I’m like, he’s a doctor, but he’s apparently the black sheep in the family. Uh, but I grew up. Watching them excel at every single thing that they did. And I was almost overwhelmed. And my mom, growing up, my parents shortened my name, it’s Candace, so they’d call me Can. And every time she would see me doubt myself because I didn’t feel like I was great enough or as good as my brother, she would always tell me Can-Do. And it kind of became something that her voice turned into my own. And then it started standing for the acronym of community, authenticity, dealing with negativity, enjoying the dash, which is the journey between the start and the finish, and seizing and creating opportunity. And so that’s kind of the way that I live my life. I feel like it’s gotten me through tying my shoes, it’s gotten me through dunking a basketball, it’s gotten me through the toughest parts of continuing to try to be true to who I am and who I was when I was little. 

Ellen McGirt So let’s dig into the stories and the framework that you share, because this is, it’s a leadership and business book, yes, but really this is a love letter to possibility. You, basketball is obviously a team sport, but you spend a lot of time talking about the various communities that you were a part of or that you stumbled upon or welcomed you who were part of your success. Can you share a couple of examples of where community really made a difference for you? 

Candace Parker I come from, honestly, I’m so grateful for the family that I come from, and my mom and dad were always the ones that, even when the world wasn’t like, hey, girls can play sports, or hey, girls should go out there and be competitive, my parents were the ones that opened my eyes to the fact that I shouldn’t be any different in the way that I approach things as my brothers. And so I just think that the foundation of who I am starts with that. It starts with my dad. Where I was the tallest kid on the floor, and my coach just wanted to put me by the basket, my dad saying, no, she’s gonna learn how to dribble, she’s going to learn how shoot, she’s going to learn to pass. It’s my mom being okay with me coming in with my stockings all messed up from beating all the boys at kickball at recess. I just am really grateful for them setting the tone of not putting me in a box. And I know a lot of young girls had to fight to just be included or just have a seat at the table. And we’re still facing that today, but having a foundation that doesn’t limit my potential, limit what I’m capable of and doesn’t, is unapologetic. Like I think as a young girl, when I went out into the world, college was my first experience of not having the world tell me that I could do or be anything I wanted to. Like be strong, but not too strong because you don’t want to look too muscular. You know, be competitive, but don’t yell because that just looks crazy. But my parents and my brothers, they’ve always encouraged me to be Candace. And because of that, then whenever I walk into spaces, whether it’s a business meeting, my voice may tremble, but I know that I have to hold my shoulders back and I should be there, and I deserve to be there. And so I think that comes from just the community I grew up with, and it’s carrying over to the community that now I’m creating with my friends. Being a mom of three now, It’s just everything that I do is as a result of them.

Ellen McGirt So speaking of family, we’re gonna move to the next part of the mindset, which is authenticity. This is where community gets really personal. You’ve had to navigate some extraordinarily personal decisions that affected your career and family, becoming a young mom the first time, and then navigating love and all the complexities of falling in love and declaring your love with your wife Anna. Could you talk a little bit about how you’ve been able to navigate being authentic when there was so much at stake. 

Candace Parker It’s so crazy because I’m a history buff, and I look at the times of history and how we look back at even like the 80s and 90s and movies and the way that they speak is how we probably wouldn’t speak today. How we live our lives in today, we shy away from authenticity because of the ways of the world now, right? And now athletes having babies and mothers, and now there’s all of these other avenues and support, and there’s a CBA in the WNBA, there’s paid leave. When I was pregnant with my daughter, if you’re away from the court, you don’t get paid. I had to buy out sharing a room because I had bring my mom with me to watch my daughter because I was nursing. So I think it was just navigating the times of how they were and not letting it impact who I am and who I want to be. I always have always wanted to be a mom. That is my favorite job in my entire life. And at 22 years old, it’s sad and an experience that I could not wait to have. The first thought was, what is everybody else gonna think? [00:37:16]And so throughout those experiences, now looking back and looking how time has passed and young girls that are having kids and playing and throughout their career, you look at Serena Williams and what she was able to accomplish coming back after having her daughter, you’re looking at Allyson Felix, who is unbelievable. You look at Carrie Walsh. So there’s all these athletes that have shown that we can do it, and I just wish that the world didn’t always have to work that way. Where we live in a world that in order to be it, you have to see it. And so just early on, I operated in a way that if it wasn’t there, it doesn’t mean it’s not possible. And so it’s my responsibility to create that for somebody else. And so I just think it’s just not living in the times, if that makes sense. 

Ellen McGirt And I believe, if I have this right, that you’re the only professional athlete who was in a huddle arguing with your coach while you were nursing.

Candace Parker Yes, at halftime. So I nursed my daughter for 15 months, and because I was, I grew up with a mom that was a stay-at-home mom, and the image that I had of a mother was somebody that was at all of my concerts, that was even there when I had one line in a play, my mom was front and center.

Ellen McGirt Yeah.

Candace Parker And so it really impacted the way that I saw myself as a mom. And so my daughter went everywhere with me. And in the locker room, she was hungry and I had to nurse. So I’m arguing about pick and roll coverages with Michael Cooper and I’m nursing.

Ellen McGirt But that’s the other piece of it that I think is so extraordinary with all the athletes that you mentioned. Now we have the CBA, now it seems normal because every one of you, including you, fought for it, which is an unusual, that’s an extra burden, extra added labor that we’re asking people who are already so excellent and working so hard to stay healthy and to continue to entertain and delight us, which brings me to the end, negativity. You make a very, athletes are no stranger to pain, and you in particular have been through your share. But you draw a very important distinction between the pain of excellence and actual negativity that lives around you, and that you have to understand and embrace it if you want to have a big life. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because you seem to have taken it head on at a very early age and just gotten better at it as time went on?

Candace Parker Negativity is a part of life, and the more we shield ourselves for it, from it, I think the lesser we’re equipped to deal with it. My job as a mom is not to shelter my kids from the hard stuff, because I think later on you’ll be more equipped to succeed. I mean, any type of success comes with negativity, setbacks, and… We were just talking about resilience in the back. It’s so important because from a young age, my first setback, I love basketball more than anything, it was my first love in everything I did. I would sacrifice whatever, and I tore my ACL when I was 17 years old, and went through that rehab with a great attitude. Obviously it hurt, but with a great attitude. Then the next year I arrive at University of Tennessee, and I have to have another total knee reconstruction. And I kept being hung up on the fact that it’s not fair. Like, why do they get to go out and play basketball pain-free? And I have to be rehabbing on the sideline. And I think sometimes, instead of focusing on the circumstance, let’s focus on how we’re gonna get through it. And there’s a point that I talk about in the book where I’m still hung up on the unfairness of life. And why is this that I’m not able to achieve my dreams and I’ve had 13 knee surgeries, two foot surgeries, one shoulder surgery, and I just have always, you know, I’ve always loved basketball and I’ve always tried to get back on the court as fast as I could and there’s a point in the book where, you now, I’m doing everything I can to shield and hide my emotions and try to navigate life and disappointment and I’m on my crutches on my way to class and I literally fall and slip in the rain. And I’m laying there and like the rain is like pelting me in the face And you know when you reach that breaking point where you’re just like you’re done and it’s like I quit, I give up, I’m done. Like if I don’t play basketball. But I picked myself up and I got up and went to class. And then when we hung the national championship banner, I still remembered that moment. And so I say all that to say that I think when you reached the success, you realize it’s really the pain that got you there. It’s really Getting up, putting one foot in front of the other. And. You know, you can have great people around you, but you have to pick yourself up. You have to commit to doing the work. You have have to have the passion and the energy and the drive. And it’s not when you’re cutting down nets. It’s, you know, I have tears when I’m cutting down nets because of that and all the energy and effort and sacrifice you put into it. So I think that’s the main thing when it comes to dealing with adversity. You know adversity doesn’t build, it builds character, but it reveals it as well.

Ellen McGirt We need to think about that more today more than ever. The dash part was really delightful and a surprise. The joy between the beginning and the end. You just retired really quickly, could you’d look back on your career. What was the big joy? Was there anything you would do differently? 

Candace Parker The joy was the journey of every day falling in love with the process. And I don’t say that lightly, like I miss going out on the court and just form shooting or going out in the court and like, I know it’s crazy, but like, you know that feeling when you get yourself up in the morning and you didn’t want to work out, but then you finished the workout and you’re like so proud of yourself? Yes. Like I miss that feeling. 

Ellen McGirt Sometimes, I know they feeling. 

Candace Parker I miss that feeling you know of like looking around the locker room and like you guys just won a big game. And you’re looking at everybody that contributed in whatever whatever different way I think the biggest regret that I have in my career Is also the reason why I was able to do what I did in my carrier was because I kept moving the goalpost. 

Ellen McGirt Yeah. 

Candace Parker So you know when you accomplish something and then you you’re like, well, I want to do this And I wish I would’ve taken the moments a little bit more. You know, and it was always, I thought winning a championship would satisfy the hunger, but really it just made it bigger. It made me want more. Made me want seconds and thirds and fourths. So I wish I would’ve take in the moment and really been like, this is really cool. 

Ellen McGirt That’s important. That’s important, to really stop and pause and think it through and feel it and experience it as what it is. So, O, we’re going to end with O, the opportunity. You just have clearly been this person. You’re looking for opportunities for yourself and others. What is your best advice for the leaders in this room, thinking through the mindset and what you’ve touched on today for continuing to look for opportunities, for others, when there’s just so much noise in the world right now. 

Candace Parker It’s really hard to do, is to check your perception. And I say that, were sitting in a world now where we’re looking at women’s basketball through a whole other lens and through a whole other light. But y’all, it’s been pretty exciting for a while. So I don’t know if it it’s changed. I think it’s just the lens for which we’re looking through it has changed. And I think it goes across the board. Within leadership, within opportunity, you look at the impact sports has had on women in business, 97% of C-suite women in business played a team sport. It’s not by accident. And so I think just when in creating these opportunities and seizing these opportunities we have to figure out through which lens we’re looking at it and check ourselves and our perceptions at the door. People are going to lead different. That’s just the reality of it and It doesn’t mean that it’s worse or better or whatever. I mean, look at the NBA now. They thought that young coaches couldn’t succeed. Now, almost two thirds of the coaches are under 45 years old. So I just think that we as humans, you know, in creating those opportunities, have to realize what our own misconceptions are and, you know and also not allow the time to be the judgment. Like the time is now. I’m tired of firsts in the year 2025. Hello. Tired of, you know, it being like the first, really it’s just about opportunity. It’s about being seen. It’s just being poured into, and it’s about having the resources. And so I just would encourage everyone to be for someone else what you needed when you were growing up. To be for somebody else. Because I’m so grateful for my parents instilling my mindset, because that’s the main thing in achievement, is your mindset going into it. And I think everything else is not as important. And so be that for someone else, and I think you can set them up for a huge amount of success. 

Ellen McGirt That is the perfect, I hate to let you go, but that’s the perfect place to end. Let’s have your voice be in our head like your mom’s and Pat Summitt was in your head as well. 

Ellen McGirt The Design of Business|Business of Design is a podcast from Design Observer. Design Observer was co-founded by Jessica Helfand. Our show is written and produced by Alexis Haut. Our theme music is by Warner Meadows. Justin D. Wright of Seaplane Armada mixed and mastered this episode. Thanks to Sheena Medina, Sarah Gephart, Rachel Paese, and the entire Design Observer team. And for more long form content about the people redesigning our world, please consider subscribing to our newsletters. The Design of Business and The Observatory at designobserver.com.